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scotthm |
Re: Accuracy | ||
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Posts: 44 (10/29/07 22:27:52) |
I've decided to start a thread showing the modifications I'm making.
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AModelMan |
Re: New thread | ||
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Posts: 308 (10/30/07 06:22:15) |
Yeah, yours will build up to many pages too and and it makes more sense to keep everybody's distinct from each other's. The guy's over in the Pod section have lots of posts like that.
Great to see you are making good progress on your kit! It definitely takes more time than you might at first think! I've got another big update in a couple days... I'm almost there!!! -t
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AModelMan |
Bubble, Bubble Boil and Massive Trouble | ||
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Posts: 308 (10/30/07 15:01:00) |
This is driving me nuts! Within a few brief moments of the paint going down, it bubbled and pitted across the entire top hull. I would have been done if it had
gone down smooth like it should have...
Starboard wing
Port Neck area close up.
The paint was room temp and mildly shaken, the hull was sitting in the sun for no more than an hour... The surface was totally clean and smooth... Any hypothesis or ruminations on this issue? I can't keep going thru this bull! I was finally done, damn it! I could have wrapped it all up tomorrow!!! At the same time, I'm VERY glad this is happening to this easy kit and not the CMK, AMK or the EVAP that are on their way to me! Better to get my chops down on this bird than those others. But I just don't get it! It's been total voodoo the entire way!!!
-t
Last Edited By: AModelMan
09/18/08 12:47:45.
Edited 1 times.
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JWLaRue |
Re: Bubble, Bubble Boil and Massive Trouble | ||
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Posts: 48 (10/30/07 15:46:10) |
Weird!
How heavy of a cost of paint are you applying? From the way the bubbles look, the coat looks pretty thick? I've always had the best luck putting down a series of thin coats of paint, letting all the propellant gas off before going to the next coat. Even better is to use an airbrush with a compressor..... -Jeff |
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AModelMan |
Re: Bubble, Bubble Boil and Massive Trouble | ||
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Posts: 308 (10/30/07 16:09:58) |
This Testor's goes down way thicker than I am used to from the standard generic paint I am used to, so that could easily be part of it... But I did that across the entire surface and it only appeared in two major parts, the rest of this latest surface is utterly smooth -it's a patchy problem at best. The port wing is essentially perfect withe the same amount of paint down.
Could it really be propellant 'caught' with the media and then welling up on the surface? I did get close with the can... Why bubbling and pitting? My basic method is to paint in a circular motion (wax on, wax off) and cover the surface. The last time I did this same technique and same density, it went on like silk and was mirror smooth. When I saw the bubbling beginning to appear on the starboard wing I did an extra pass hoping that would tamp it down -it didn't... -t
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JWLaRue |
Re: Bubble, Bubble Boil and Massive Trouble | ||
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Posts: 48 (10/30/07 16:41:38) |
Is it really pitting (of the surface)? It's hard to tell in the photo, but the 'pits' look like surface bubbles that have 'popped'.......
How far from the surface are you holding the nozzle of the paint can? When I use spray cans, I usually hold it about twelve inches from the surface and use even, straight strokes that start off the subject....pass over it, and then end off the object. -Jeff |
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AModelMan |
Re: Bubble, Bubble Boil and Massive Trouble | ||
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Posts: 308 (10/30/07 17:32:11) |
You're right, pitting is the wrong term. Those are closer to air holes. But they would have to be popping under the surface. I watched it occur, the hole simply 'opened', or spread. There was no 'bubble popping' as with boiling water for instance...
In this case, I was about a foot, likely just under as there was a wind carrying the spray around. Despite the proximity and thickness, there is no blobbing or dripping whatsoever -as I would expect with over-thick paint going down. I've never seen anything like this with any other brand of paint I've used. All other paint that I've gone too thick with simply blobs and runs. I've seen plenty of fish eye before, but never bubbling like this. I used the same method on the lower hull and had no problems, the only difference -the paint company /temp, technique, wind all similar circumstances. I started with a circular motion off the model and ended off the model. I did not do straight passes in this case, though I do in many cases. I learned not to start on the model as that initial burst of spray can throw a blotch down. But would these factors create this kind of bubbling and not drip/blobs? It seems you may be on to something in that gas of some sort must be getting trapped under the paint somehow. But why? The wind in this case? The temperature of the paint and surface were too different? I know cold spray can go down ugly... Tomorrow I sand it all down again, air-blast and damp-wipe the surface down. Then she cooks in the sun along with the spray can. Let those both heat up for at least an hour and try again. Just hope I have enough paint left at this point to do a complete pass. With my luck... -t
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Davehb |
Re: Bubble, Bubble Boil and Massive Trouble | ||
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Posts: 21 (10/30/07 17:54:31) |
Is it possible the resin is out gassing?
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Paulbo |
Re: Bubble, Bubble Boil and Massive Trouble | ||
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Posts: 217 (10/30/07 18:03:33) |
Oh man, my heart bleeds for you. Been watching your buildup and ... well, hell, that's just gotta hurt. All my best for figuring out the problem and getting back on schedule.
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AModelMan |
Re: Bubble, Bubble Boil and Massive Trouble | ||
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Posts: 308 (10/30/07 19:05:30) |
Thanks Paulbo! I appreciate it! I just pray this sort of thing doesn't happen to my pod!!!
Dave: Out-gassing resin, eh? I thought of that for the 'angry spirits' problem... Maybe I defeated them so well the other week that they're back with a dish of vengeance, served extra cold... I literally have dozens of coats of paint across the hull of several brands. white, black, silver, gray, matte, gloss, etc. And that goes back almost two months worth of work. Oddly enough, the starboard wing has been the best behaved yet! Which is why I was shocked that it happened there. I fully expected this nonsense from the port wing, but not the starboard... No. Not the starboard One day... One day soon... I WILL post shots of the beautiful finished ship! And there will be much rejoicing! Hoorayyy!!! ![]() -t
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AModelMan |
Cloaking Device | ||
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Posts: 308 (10/30/07 19:49:45) |
Quote: Of course! Genius strikes! I'll simply drill the hooks into the ceiling, hang some fishing line and say I built the Romulan version and the cloak is activated when anyone asks! Finished! Thanks sooo much dude! -t
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I AM KIROK |
Re: Cloaking Device | ||
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Posts: 26 (10/31/07 19:35:59) |
It looks like you are just putting it on way too thick. Try a series of light coats.
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CaptCBoard |
Re: Cloaking Device | ||
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Posts: 1358 (10/31/07 19:47:01) |
Number One rule of Resin Kit Building:
Never use heat to do anything. Putting it in the sun causes outgassing. Resin sucks, but its all we have! Scott |
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AModelMan |
Re: Heat | ||
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Posts: 308 (10/31/07 20:04:47) |
I was primarily using the sun to 'bake' the paint dry and get the ambient temp between paint and surface at similar levels...
So while the d-7 certainly got sun-warm, it was not 'cooking' in so far as I loosely threw the term around a few posts ago. Should I not even spray paint in direct sun light? All paint cans and D-7 warmed in the sun all afternoon and this paint session went down ultra-smooth everywhere, everytime... I'm wondering if the Testors I got was 'old' or simply a bad batch. Does spray paint go bad the way a jar of enamel will? If there is a temperature differential between paint and surface, can that cause what I have been seeing? Thanks for your help! Also, could someone describe the outgassing process. I get it from the phrase, but what are the physics behind such a phenomena? Arthur: Incidentally... What does Sun Dive mean? Marvin: It means we're going to dive into the Sun. Sun-Dive. It's very simple... -t
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JWLaRue |
Painting is more art that science! | ||
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Posts: 48 (11/01/07 11:17:27) |
For what it's worth.....I never warm the model before painting. All my painting is done in my cellar workroom where the temperature is approx 66 degrees F all year long with low humidity.
I do warm paint in spray cans before using by placing them in a bath of very warm water for about 5-10 minutes....then shake as per directions. This yields a much more even and finer coat of paint. Of course my hands-down preference for final color coat is to use an airbrush. (adjusting that is a whole different conversation!) -Jeff |
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AModelMan |
Re: Painting is more art that science! | ||
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Posts: 308 (11/01/07 12:00:58) |
How's your ship doing, Jeff? When do we get to see some pix?
-t
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JWLaRue |
Re: Painting is more art that science! | ||
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Posts: 48 (11/01/07 17:56:06) |
I've started the first primer coats on some of the parts....so either tomorrow or Saturday it will be time to start taking photos and posting a "build thread" here. This will be good timing as I have some questions around gluing the engine pylons to the hull.
-Jeff |
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AModelMan |
The Port Wing Hassle | ||
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Posts: 308 (11/17/07 14:47:34) |
A few coats ago I realized what was going on. Since the start, the port wing has had more paint difficulties than the starboard. (Which is why I was so dismayed a few posts ago when the SB wing had a paint prob.)
When I've been painting the ship, I've typically held it by the neck, rotating it on its' z-axis at arms length (not realizing that I was not moving the ship at a constant distance to the can, though I did some some deliberate distancing). So I modified my painting to be strictly parallel by the neck, or flat on the ground -which gives its own problems (like can spurts). I noticed the port buildup early while I painted the TOS AMT as well and stopped myself immediately. (That ship will be done tomorrow, just letting the last coat dry. Assembly tonight and decals tomorrow.) I have several specific pix I want to post and will do so as the day goes by. I'm going to do a proper update since the last major hurdle as well as update the front page post. You may want to ignore the new posting notice today for this thread as it will pop off several times through tomorrow. Stand by -t
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AModelMan |
Re: Update: 071117.14 | ||
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Posts: 308 (11/17/07 14:53:12) |
I've got the last coat of gray on the D-7's hood. It was 24 hours yesterday. I wanted to give it until today to tape the top off for green touchups. However, I am going to wait until next weds or thursday to be sure. I ruined one other 'final coat' by draping saran wrap over the top. I can wait.
One nacelle simply popped off the other week. I waited to glue it back on as it is much easier to paint the body without it on. I popped the other nacelle off the other night to match. I will slice the doodads off this weekend. My replacements are in the mail this coming monday. Then it's mask the decals, glue the last parts down and hang it over my computer here! I'm considering magnets for the impulse deck as I may want to repaint the hull top over again. It's not a perfect coat, but close. The Klingon dead haunting the hull are still there, but the effect is a minimal blob. I am sure that a few months from now the whole area will be fully cured. I will then slice any blemish there away, trowel some quality filler on, re-sand and paint. Some more info in a bit along with a few specific shots. -t
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AModelMan |
Re: Update: 071117.14 | ||
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Posts: 308 (11/17/07 21:16:39) |
Pix!
I dremel buffed this area out. The paint is a full 5mm thick! Nice! This actually helps the connection on the impulse deck, but will explain that as I finish that part in a few days. Buffing this area away caused the need for another 'final' coat to end all final coats. This time, this was it.
This is what's left of the angry Klingon spirits. If history repeats, the bubble will get somewhat larger. In six months or so if the area is not full cured then that is that. I will slice the wart off, let it sit a few days, putty, sit a few days, sand, paint.
Most of the surface looks like this. Some is patchy. When I fix the above mentioned issue, I will go for another top coat.
Will be slicing the light pods on the bottom of the nacelle off and replacing those with new castings.
It was infinitely more practical painting the hull top without the nacelles attached!!! I'm going to change the build order for the next one I get. Along the neck you can see the gray overspray that needs to be eliminated. I also tagged the aft wall. There's some overspray from when the nacelles were still attached as well.
Next up: 1. Tape and touch up the green. Historically a safe bet as long as I fully mask the gray off and it is fully cured so as not to get any imprints or bad tape pulls. 2. Mask the hull for the decals. 3. Decal. 4. Final parts assembly! 5. Photo Doc and Hang! 6. Done.
-t
Last Edited By: AModelMan
09/18/08 12:45:42.
Edited 1 times.
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