This nomencalture is telling, perhaps. Fuel cells for space use are also referred to more precisely as "Reactant Fuel Cells". The pod's power supply may have been H2/O2 reactant fuel cells.
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treddie |
Text for pod exterior panel left of door. |
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Posts: 30 (09/28/08 12:38:00) |
I have had a great print for years now from a 70mm frame of the pod in the room scene. The text for the control panel to the left of the door reads,
"REACTANT CELL ACCESS". The words "REACTANT" and "CELL" are definite; the word "ACCESS" I would say has
a 95% chance of being correct. Camera blur and film grain prevent anything clearer.
This nomencalture is telling, perhaps. Fuel cells for space use are also referred to more precisely as "Reactant Fuel Cells". The pod's power supply may have been H2/O2 reactant fuel cells. |
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THX11138 |
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Posts: 10 (09/30/08 03:18:17) |
It seems that the 70mm prints hold the last hope of identifying small details such as this. I would love to see an archive set up for this purpose and would be
willing to contribute to the effort. A high-end transilluminating scanner would be required... and access to a 70mm print to "borrow" for a while...
The Pod would also require refueling of the reaction control thrusters and the axial engine. I believe they used hydrazine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine in the '60's. Interestingly, some '60's-era satellites also used hydrazine for their fuel cells instead of H2O2. It would be more efficient to use one fuel for both purposes, on such a long mission with no resupply. The tanks along the aft wall of the pod bay may have stored the RCT fuel. There are two different size tanks; perhaps the larger ones stored liquid oxygen for the pods. There would have to be connectors on the pod for resupply. There is a silver knob with finger indentations on the aft-port aspect of the pod. This looks like a "gas cap". There are also likely to be electrical connectors to supply the Pods while they're in the bay, but none of the pods are hooked up to anything in the film. There are electrical connectors in the fore exterior panel, the one around the HAL lens. The black base could house a magnetic induction coil to power the pods, just like an electric toothbrush. |
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Posts: 31 (09/30/08 16:57:57) |
An archive WOULD be nice.
The prevalent choice by NASA since Gemini for reaction control jets (and the Shuttle OMS engines) has been Monomethyl Hydrazine for the fuel and Nitrogen Tetroxide for the oxidizer which are "hypergolic" (ignite on contact with each other). The fuel is of no use without the oxidizer. Both are extremely hazardous/corrosive chemicals and require elaborate care when handling (SCAPE suits are mandatory). I have often felt that using such chemicals in the confines of the pod bay would not be a wise choice; that there would have to be a special propellent handling room completely separate from the pod bay, with its own airlock. These chemicals are SO dangerous that any leaks in a confined area would lead to contamination of all exposed surfaces that come into contact with free floating liquid, which in turn would continually outgas from there on out. Even in very small quantities, MMH and N2O4 are extreme health risks; there is no known safe exposure limit. Safer options would be the high energy LH2 and LOX combo, or lower energy (but still considered high) monopropellent Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) with a catalyst such as silver. LH2 and LOX are difficult to store, although a long duration mission would certainly already have the equipment to store liquid or solid O2. Hydrogen Peroxide can be stored at room temperature so it does not require heavy refrigeration equipment to liquify it. LH2, LOX and H2O2 are non-toxic, but will severely burn surfaces, requiring SCAPE suits to handle. For comparisons sake, the H2O2 in your medicine cabinet is at most 3% concentration which WILL burn skin. Rocket grade H2O2 is about 90% concentration. But the good thing about H2O2 is that it is non-toxic and will evaporate and separate into H20 and one O-atom. Since the pod is essentially a low-thrust vehicle, H2O2 is perfectly viable. Nitrogen, cold-gas thrusters could also be used (N2 already being available for the spacecraft atmosphere), but this is a very low energy solution perhaps not applicable to a relatively massive pod in close proximity to objects where collision avoidance requires quick changes in momentum. Another issue is MMH/N2O4 contamination of exposed surfaces from thruster activity. Remember that the pod must use thrusters to get off of the ramp. The gases from the thruster activity impinge on the ramp surface and deflect and spread out into the pod bay through the open pod bay doors. The amounts are sufficient enough to contaminate the pod bay and make it a dangerous place to breath. Even if there was no deflection into the pod bay, there is certainly severe contamination of the ramp upper surface which will continually outgas from then on. As for the lower engine (even showing up in dramatic use, in Robert McCall's famous pod & Discovery painting), I think there is some misconception about its capabilities. I am praying to the math gods that I have done the math correctly here as I haven't had time to REALLY check these numbers more thoroughly. The pods were really intended only for maintainance tasks outside Discovery and intimated limited recon, according to A.C. Clarke in his novel. A big rocket engine would be used for what is referred to as Delta-V maneuvers; amounts of thrust that are large enough to change the shape of trajectories and orbits. Since the pod is intended for close-range operations well within the proximity of Discovery and limited Delta-V, the size of the engine is limited. In fact, A.C.C. gave the acceleration of this engine as only 1/5g and an unknown pod range, but it couldn't be much given the pod's size, even at 9ft diameter (vs. the movie's 7ft). But we do know Bowman was 50 miles above the surface of Iapetus (roughly 84% of Earth's moon in diameter, but 1/3 its density) and descended to near the surface. That's equivalent to only 6.4 ft/sec^2 engine thrust hovering above the surface, with Iapetus' surface gravity of 0.76378 ft/sec^2 (1/42 g). For comparison, the Lunar Module (with an essentially empty Descent Stage) hovering above the lunar surface has 18 ft/sec^2 maximum acceleration to counteract the moon's 1/6 gravity (5.36 ft/sec^2). Even when hovering above the surface of the small moon, Iapetus, Bowman only has a few minutes of hover time, according to A.C.C. who was quite the mathematician. Also, there simply is no room inside the pod for the amount of propellents necessary to perform Delta-V burns powerful enough to get you anywhere relatively far away, let alone the amount necessary to get you back to the Discovery from such a "long" trip. Therefore, given the movie pod's size of roughly 7ft, it ain't going to stray too far...unless you get hijacked by a Stargate). Consider as well, the volume taken up by life support air tanks, and cooling fluid tanks. Incidentally, if you haven't wondered about it already, the pod has great translation capability in all three axes, and great yaw and roll control but lowsy pitch control, because there are no thrusters dedicated to pitch (unless they're hidden inside the cone below the pod). This means wasted propellent since it takes far more to fire the other thrusters in a rocking motion fashion to get the equivalent pitch, than just to have dedicated pitch thrusters. The only other possibility is a gimballed engine to handle pitch control.
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09/30/08 19:15:46.
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Posts: 32 (10/01/08 22:01:28) |
THX > I wondered about the big tanks, too. Your propellent idea sounds reasonable. I also wondered about the small tank sets behind the suits. I guess
recharge stations for the suits would be a natural thought. But why the tanks are cascaded is beyond me. Purification? For what? Maybe the cascading is just
studio, detail "gobbledeegook". Maybe it's a still built by Bowman and Poole.
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Posts: 12 (10/03/08 12:40:07) |
Treddie,
Nice detailed analysis. There were two Pod designs in the Pod Bay: one for EVA and one for surveying. The EVA Pod had a HAL lens and the survey Pod had a camera in its place. The Survey Pod, which was to be piloted by the team in hibernation, would have been capable of sustained hovering over the moon's surface (there's no clue as to how the astronauts would actually dig to excavate the presumed Monolith's twin... they had no way of knowing that it would be orbiting Jupiter). Maybe the Pod used a miniature nuclear propulsion system (but there's no room for radiation shielding beneath the seat). There isn't enough room in the Pod for large chemical engine tanks as you noted. re: Pod rotation: couldn't this have been done with Gyro's? The Pod rotation control was extremely precise... it was rotated 180 degrees during EVA's and the manual airlock scene. Also, the pod remained motionless when Bowman rotated the control to open the manual airlock door. Something had to be providing counter-rotating force. Instead of a gimballed main engine or angled reaction control nozzles under the Pod, I always thought that the nozzles in the Ear Muffs were gimballed... just a guess. The only thing I can think of that could use a cascading tank system is a water filtration reverse-osmosis system. Water could be scavenged from the A/C coils and plumbing, for detox and recycling. The tanks could also contain backup liquid O2 and N2 supplies to refill the Pod bay after each EVA. It would make more sense to store them in the containers along Discovery's spine, but the spine would be a single point of failure in case of a meteor strike that would doom the mission if the air supply pipes were cut.
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10/05/08 14:05:44.
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Posts: 33 (10/03/08 15:48:35) |
Nuclear propulsion is always heavy. Shielding, as you pointed out. And you still need a gas as propellent, such as Hydrogen, so you can't get away from
storage.
I think that for restricted use as A.C.C. described it, the 9ft. pod size would work ok (maybe even 7ft.) for something like H2O2, but I've never taken the time to really look at ballpark volumes for the necessary tankage, reasonable specific impulse and so on. Momentum wheels (gyros) could be used for rotation but those are very slow acting systems more applicable to attitude adjustments that do not need to be "agile", such as rendesvous and docking. How fast it can respond depends on the size of the wheel, and the wheels themselves are quite heavy. They are great for slow-moving situations (done periodically) where the mass of the system over the lifetime of the mission comes out less than a standard reaction control system. That's one reason they are popular for satellites and the ISS. As always, weight is a huge factor. They also become saturated and must be periodically unloaded, and some appliactions use reaction jets for that. Reaction jets are far superior for quick, accurate changes. Watch Apollo rendesvous images when the LM ascent stage is filmed from the CM. A method was used during rendesvous and docking called "Minimum Impulse Mode". Everytime the pilot would move the handcontroller, a single pulse would be fired from the appropriate thrusters. When he would command the reverse motion, another single shot would fire in the opposite direction. Other modes were available too, but the point is that accuracy and agility (at least for an essentially empty LM ascent stage returning from the moon) were quite good. To hold position and attitude, "Attitude Hold Mode" was used, which was part of the DAP software. Gimballing is again, a weight issue. For every engine you gimbal you add a significant amount of weight and complexity to the system to support it. The pod is already very limited in size, and there is already too small a space in the side "domes" to gimbal jets. There may even be too little room for individual combustion chambers so that multiple nozzles connected by valves to a single combustion chamber would be be necesary (I'm going to look at that at some point). Thus, the amount of thrusters you see is indicative of non-gimballed jets. I am presently doing some rough calculations on the canted positions of the jets and find that they are not pointed in optimal directions for translation. That means very inefficient use of propellents. I'll post that as well (perhaps in a different thread) when I finish up. Also, I'll go into an explanation of why I'm even doing all of this, considering that this was "just a movie". You're idea that the tanks could be used for repressurizing the pod bay , and storing pumped out atmosphere makes sense. I don't think the small ones would fit the bill though. So perhaps it's just the big ones for that. With three stations of small bottles behind three suits, the quick-look impression I got was that those three stations were dedicated to suit recharge stations. But I have decieved myself many times in the past over such things.
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10/03/08 18:19:19.
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EVAPOD man |
Pod bay info | ||
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Posts: 82 (10/04/08 05:46:22) |
It was interesting to read the thread about the propulsion used for the EVA pod. Several years ago I e-mailed Scott about the subject and I proposed back then
that the pod were propelled by a dry nitrogen system because of the extreme hazards of a hypergolic fulel system. He replied that he felt that the vents in the
ceiling would be used to remove all traces of the fumes.
While I agree about the hazards of the chemicals I disagree about them permenantly comtaminating a surface once used. As you said the shuttle uses this system for attitude adjustment and it will definately contaminate the surfaces around the nozzle. One of the first things done before a crew can leave the shuttle is to get a huge fan to blow away any residues of this fuel after landing. So I believe there ae safe levels, perhaps only a few PPM, but allowable. As to the cylinders and tanks seen in the pod bay, I belive that some of them are oxygen containers used to re-pressurize the pod bay after its been used. All the air has to be pumped out prior to exiting and this air would probably be liquefied for storage until needed again. One question I have ayways had is about the control room used to enter and exit the ppod bay. What is its purpose? Is it designed to manually operate the bay and pods by remote control? Was it made so that objects could be brought into the bay and examined without the atronauts being exposed to them? |
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Posts: 34 (10/04/08 16:17:58) |
Howdie EVAPOD man.
As mentioned above, dry nitrogen is a very low energy proposition. The momentum generated is dependent on the tank pressure. As the tank pressure drops, so does thrust. So as the pilot conducts a pod mission, controlability becomes more difficult as time progresses. This means that there will always be an amount of N2 left over that can never be practically used, but you have to carry its mass anyway. Compare this with a liquid propulsion system, whereby the liquid is stored in a flexible bladder inside of a tank. As gas (probably Helium), is forced into the tank between the tank wall and the bladder, it forces the liquid out of the tank and into the feed lines. This ensures a minimum of gas bubbles forming in the liquid and delivers the exact amount of fluid needed, since the amount of gas needed to most-completely squeeze the bladder empty and maintain a fairly constant tank pressure along the way, can be figured beforehand. The BIG difference is that with a very small amount of liquid can be generated a LOT of chemical energy. The chemical energy produces FAR more energy than the equivalent amount of gas. This means FAR lower tank pressures, FAR less pressurization gas, and the fact that a liquid takes up less volume than when in its gas phase. In other words, the "energy density" in 1 cubic inch of liquid H2O2, is incredibly more than 1 cubic inch of N2 at pressure. Since it takes relatively little gas to force out that 1 cubic inch of fluid, you can afford to have a volume of pressurizing gas just large enough to make sure that the propellent tank pressure remains fairly constant from completely full to empty. You just can't get the momentum rate control with dry gas propulsion that you can with chemical propulsion. I place dry N2 in the same category as Control Moment Gyros; good for low rate control where agility is not a major issue. The difference I see between Shuttle and Discovery pod, is that after the Shuttle lands, the RCS is fully examined, the nozzles exterior surfaces cleaned and then covered with red dust covers that also have the side benefit of confining any residual combustion gases. Also, the Shuttle is never confined within a small volume work area. The PPMs that do escape are diluted within very large work volumes (Shuttle Processing Facility and VAB). Also, contamination of the Shuttle exterior surfaces is very minimal if non-existent since combustion ensures that the gases move AWAY from the Shuttle. There is no way for the gases to swirl back or be blown onto the Shuttle's surfaces, except during entry and passage through the thin upper atmosphere up to the moment the atmosphere is dense enough to use the aerosurfaces. Thus, the only major contamination is in the thruster nozzles themselves and the ablators, which get covered after landing and remain so until launch (except when they are inspected or repaired). Contrast this with the pod and podbay, and there is significant deflection off of the ramp and into the podbay. It could be argued that given sufficient ventilation, any impurities could be flushed out. But the podbay is a very small volume and there is a greater chance of breathing in contaminants than in the huge Shuttle Processing Facility. Also, it can not be stressed enough just how dangerous MMH and N2O4 are. Not just due to combustion energy, but the big health risks as well, even in very small quantities. They are major cancer risks. N2O4 is SO bad that Air Force technicians are particularly respectful (even afraid) of it. It can kill you simply by being absorbed through the skin. Regardless of the type of propellents used, I think it would have been a good touch in the film if the pods all had red dust covers over the thrusters with "Remove Before Flight" tags attached to them. I like both your ideas about the pod bay observation room. I also think that the room makes a good staging area for monitoring of crew activity inside the pod bay when it is depressurized. Also, the obs. room all the way up the ladder to the node which connects to the centrifuge/CM access, acts as another airlock (The node itself, another airlock). When the podbay is depressurized, it would be nice to have some way to directly observe what is going on inside without resorting to TV images. If there is an emergency, it would be handy to have the ability to depressurize the obs. room to gain access to a depressurizeed podbay, without losing the pressurization and access between the CM and centrifuge. |
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THX11138 |
Pod size | ||
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Posts: 13 (10/05/08 08:59:34) |
Ian Walsh gives a convincing analysis of the Pod size here.
He arrives at a sphere diameter of 81 inches (6' 9"). Not much room for propellant for a main engine! I suspect that any long-duration surveying or
moon landing/launch would require external tanks of some sort, or better yet, docking the pod with an external larger propulsion module, which would have
landing legs just like the Apollo LM. This would also presumably contain the surveying and excavation tools. There's just no room for any of this in the
Pod. There is ample room to store several such units along the Discovery spine. This would also solve the problems inherent with having the astronauts sitting
inches from the main engine: radiation shielding and/or heat dissipation.
The flat Pod bottom would also facilitate docking. A shot of the bottom surface here shows four objects that look like connectors. |
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EVAPOD man |
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Posts: 83 (10/05/08 09:27:47) |
I think that the movie pods are designed for a pure zero-gee enviroment. While in the book Clarke had them hovering over the surface of the moon where the
monolith was he never described what the pods looked like and it seems pretty evident that the movie pods could not carry sufficient fuel for such a manuever.
It also seems pretty likely that Dave used up almost all his pods fuel to retrieve Frank and bring him back to the Discovery and that it would have been very dificult if not impossible to try and retrieve the other two pods that went off into space. The only possiblity would have been to try and retrieve them using remote control if contact could be made. And about the problem of dangerous propellants, one person made the suggestion that in a "real" spaceship the pods would have docked backwards into an exterior hatch instead of onto a pad that would be drawn into the interior. Since the pods would never come into an pressurized area the problems of exposure to dangerous chemicals would never exist. |
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Posts: 35 (10/05/08 12:06:51) |
THX11138 > Yah, I agree. If the pod could be considered as a "Universal Bus" as they call it in the satellite biz, it could be attached to any
number of plug-on modules.
EVAPOD man > I agree as well. It is quite common for thruster leaks or stuck thrusters to occur; it's happened during Gemini, Apollo, Shuttle and Soyuz. Doing the external docking thing is the only thing that makes real sense, even for H2O2 or even N2. Why risk a stuck thruster in an enclosed area, or even a burst tank. If an N2 leak is bad enough, it is no less dangerous than fuels and oxidizers, even though it is not intrinsically "poisonous", and can kill you just as quickly. Many people may not recall the deadly incident at KSC on March 19, 1981, before the 1st Shuttle launch. It was just after the Countdown Demonstration Test, when they sent a team of 6 back to the pad. Unfortunately, there was an unforseen problem lurking in the post-test procedures, and they had already started an N2 purge to flush out any possible H2/O2 vapours around the aft engine compartment: "1981 March 19: anoxia: During preparations for STS-1, at the end of the 33-hour-long Shuttle Dry Countdown Demonstration Test, Columbia's aft engine compartment was under a nitrogen purge to prevent the buildup of oxygen and hydrogen gases from the propulsion system. Six technicians entered the aft engine compartment and five of the six lost consciousness due to the lack of oxygen in the compartment. Two died. John Gerald Bjornstad, a 50-year-old Rockwell employee, was pronounced dead at the scene, and Forrest Cole was brought to the hospital where he later died. The other four workmen were treated and released." I'm not a doctor (but I do play one on TV), but in my shady and murky memory I seem to recall that if you are not getting enough oxygen, it's not the lack of oxygen that causes you to breath faster, it's the buildup of CO2 that your body senses. The key is the partial pressure of CO2. If you are breathing, say, pure nitrogen (which is odorless), your body is not metabolizing CO2, so the body does not see a problem and you just breath normally as your body slowly purges itself of CO2 with each breath. Very quickly, without O2, you pass out without ever knowing what hit you. I think that was the general idea, anyway. The second pod (the one that Dave blew the hatch on), could still be recovered if it was in Attitude Hold mode when the hatch was blown. In fact, it was still there when he closed the airlock hatch.
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10/05/08 18:52:12.
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Emergency airlock info | ||
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Posts: 84 (10/11/08 06:33:03) |
I beg to differ but when you see the door for the emergency airlock closing all you see is empty space. The EVA pod has been blown away by the force of the air
being released.
This scene is one of the greatest in the movie but Kubrick fudged it a little. You see the back of the pod lined up with the hatch and then there is a blast of air followed a split second by Dave flying silently thru the airlock and bouncing around the interior of the air-lock. There is no pod hatch being blown into the interior as would really happen in a situation like this. |
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Posts: 16 (10/11/08 07:01:52) |
I've studied this scene frame-by-frame... When the pod door blows, there are jets of white smoke (likely CO2 in reality). When the smoke clears, the door
is gone completely. There are several small angular white objects that are blown into the airlock. I've thought that these could be the remnants of the
door (I would expect there to be fault lines engineered into the door structure in order to provide a more predictable shattering... kind of like the pineapple
pattern on a hand grenade), but there doesn't seem to be sufficient mass. Perhaps the volume was kept to a minimum for safety reasons... I can't think
of a reason for blowing angular fragments into the pit other than a furtive attempt at technical accuracy...
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Posts: 40 (10/12/08 02:13:34) |
EVAPOD man > I think you were looking at the frame where the "black" door was already closed. Two frames from that shot are below (courtesy THX11138's image set). When the hatch is in the process of closing, the pod is definitely out there. THX11138 > I always thought that that was a problem. Can you imagine, blowing the hatch and having it blow and get lodged in the hatchway? Might even
have been more dramatic if Kubrick had shot the scene where the hatch precedes Bowman into the airlock, and Bowman is always in danger of getting hit by it as
the two get blown about. But then, trying to conceal both wires, one for the dangling Bowman, and the other for the hatch could have been a major headache.
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10/12/08 11:19:51.
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EVAPOD man |
Emergency airlock | ||
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Posts: 86 (10/14/08 12:46:41) |
Yep, you're right. I must have been thinking about the closed door. Anyways with the pod maintaining position outside the hatch it would have been
relativeley simple to use the remaing pod and with the pod arms grapple it and move it to an empty pad.
One thing I have wondered about is the use of the explosive bolts. These are used extensively to sever mooring connections and allow parts to seperate, i.e. canopies in jet fighters. The problem I have is that the pod door is located on the inside of the pod, moving along a track and fitting into a recess for an airtight fit. How would blowing explosive bolts cause it to fly away from this recessed fitting in the pod? If it slid along a external track then I would understand. The only way this would work is if the part that would blow out was a smaller part of the larger pod door, leaving the main door frame intact. Such a frame outline I think would be visible, possibly even outlined with a warning line. Also while I shudder to think about it and would no way approve of such an act, I think that the one of the few scenes I would digitally remake/enhance would be the one in the emergency airlock showing the hatch being blown onto the airlock just ahead of Dave. |
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Posts: 77 (10/14/08 13:35:53) |
EVAPOD man: Regarding your comment on a redux of the emergency airlock scene. I think most of us here would get many hours of pure teeth-grinding joy in
absolutely and utterly tearing the thing apart frame by frame and relentlessly lambasting the CGIing wanker who would dare to presume to "improve" a
Kubrick classic! Just imagine the blood-shed. Just imagine!
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Posts: 43 (10/14/08 21:00:44) |
I'm a fence -stradller on this one. Although I agree in principal to leave well enough alone, I really WOULD like to see someone do a good digital
rendition of the hatch and other bits and pieces jetting into the airlock. Would be cool, just for the fun of it. Bloodshed not withstanding.
Concerning the pod door, there is exactly what you suggest...a door inside of a door. If you look at most clear shots of the pod back, you can see the seam between inner door and outer frame...it lies right along the outer edge of the E-Bolts red squares. On the interior side, the "seam" is the depression just inside the E-Bolts square inner edges. |
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Posts: 87 (10/19/08 09:27:18) |
I was thinking along the line of scenes I would I would like to see added/redone in a digital remake that retains the intgerity of the original film.
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Posts: 1 (10/19/08 13:23:29) |
There's precedent for retroactively adding CGI: when George Lucas prepared the original 3 Star Wars episodes for re-release on VHS, he went back and added
digital effects. These were effects that he always wanted to do but the technology wasn't available to make it believable. For example, large animals were
added to the exterior scene near the cantina in Tatooine; an entire scene with Han Solo talking to Jabba the Hutt below a spaceship (the scene was originally
filmed without Jabba, but not included in the original release) had a digital Jabba added to the scene; and several scenes from the interior of a spaceport,
originally shot with simple opaque recesses in the hallways instead of windows, had digital exterior scenes of the active spaceport added, complete with
multiple ships docking and flying by. Also, scenes originally showing opaque tie fighter windows had full cockpits added, and conversely, interior scenes had
more convincing exteriors added beyond the cockpit windows. There's a synopsis of these effects prior to the beginning of the film.
There's no doubt that Kubrick would have used every bit of computer trickery had it been available at the time. I personally think they would have diminished the film. Most of the computer graphics effects done even to this day are utterly ridiculous. There's not enough random noise to make them believable. It's often what's unseen that gives you a subconscious feeling of reality, paradoxically, as your mind is forced to connect the dots. When all of the effects are "in your face", rendered in ridiculous detail that would never occur in reality, my gut reaction is that it's too perfect... too fake. They're making great strides in this regard, with more use of motion blur, lens flare effects, depth-of-field blurring to focus your attention (as well as the intended subject in a complex scene) and simulate the effects of a camera or eye lens. Also, adding grime, dust, randomness to the clothing/scenery/facial expressions/hair helps the illusion of reality. I would love to see someone take up the project. It would be amazing to see all of the 2001 vehicles with realistic high resolution 3D fly-by's, not just Discovery, Space Station 5 and the Pod (as you all know, Aries, Orion, the orbiting satellites and the Moon Bus were all still images that were panned across the screen to make them look like they were moving). It would be a nice tribute to Kubrick. It would require a ton of money and dedication from someone possessing both. Maybe Tom Hanks? BTW, I would still use ladders in the Command Module. If the ship was under acceleration, or if you were holding something while going up or down and forced to climb with one hand, it would be helpful to have a repeating series of hand-holds and foot-supports. |
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Posts: 49 (10/19/08 23:46:30) |
I agree about 3D renderings. Too perfect most of the time, and when they're good, the trouble they had to go through to get it right speaks volumes about
the amount of hours spent. If you haven't checked out Maxwell Render yet, head over to their site:
http://www.maxwellrender.com/ Mind blowing. I've been using it for a long time now, but man, you really need a render farm to get things done in a reasonable amount of time. One Archi-Viz guy (great work by the way), has 10 8-cores he runs for typically 70 hours straight, for a render size of somewhere around 3000x3000 pixels. Otherwise, the noise in the renderings just won't go away sufficiently enough. Animation with Maxwell?...in your HAL dreams. The gap is closing, though. Like someone once told me once when looking at a Maxwell image someone had done..."Something from nothing." By the way...talking about ladders and such...I've always wondered if, whenever the Discovery needed to perform any Delta-Vs, whether they would need to stop the centrifuge during the burn. My reasoning being that if there were any off-axis residuals, the centrifuge would want to precess, and that would be nasty on the bearings, not to mention extra difficulty programming attitude changes with a big "flywheel" that wants to go 90 degrees to the way you want to rotate. But even if you could get a perfect forward burn with no off-axis motion (highly improbable), you would still have the centrifuge being forced back against a big thrust bearing of some sort. Maybe it makes sense just to stop it turning and lock it in place for the burn. |
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Posts: 10 (10/20/08 17:36:30) |
I don't remember where I got this idea (from the 2001 book, maybe?) but I always assumed there was a counter-rotating weight that canceled out the
gyroscopic effects of the centrifuge.
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