Steve
| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
snmavronis |
"2001 in 2008: A Cinematic Odyssey" - New Behind The Scenes Photos! |
Lead | |
|
Posts: 26 (12/04/08 14:09:39) |
I found this today on the Internet from a film event called "2001 in 2008: A Cinematc Odyssey" hosted by Tom Hanks and Douglas Trumbull. Someone took
photos while watching the film so they are distorted but still very useful as 2001 modeling reference. There is a picture of Douglas Trumbull detailing the
Moonbus model, two Moonbus interior set shots, and some good Discovery pod bay shots showing new areas of the set. I have never seen these before! All (and
more behind the scenes 2001 stuff) from this Photo Gallery.
Steve
Last Edited By: snmavronis 12/04/08 18:23:05.
Edited 5 times.
|
||
TWKArtist |
2001 in 2008... | ||
|
Posts: 30 (12/04/08 16:33:49) |
Sounds interesting but -- your link doesn't work...
TWKArtist
|
||
snmavronis |
|||
|
Posts: 27 (12/04/08 18:24:30) |
I fixed it. I had to add the link address to some text for it to work. Click on Photo Gallery in my post above.
Steve |
||
x15gal |
2001 in 2008 | ||
|
Posts: 24 (12/05/08 00:33:19) |
Yes, that was a great presentation at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences back in May. I have photos on my site of various displays that I have
participated in, including that event.
http://www.mach25media.com/2001display.html Scroll down toward the bottom to see photos from the Academy display. I did not take any photos off the screen as they were doing the presentation, so those are not on my site. Enjoy Michelle |
||
EVAPOD man |
2001 Timeline | ||
|
Posts: 92 (12/20/08 09:01:19) |
I found your 2001 timeline very interesting. Of course one of the biggest problems is to decide what is "canon", the movie or book. The book was
written prior to final filming and differs considerably from the movie, mainly the final destination of Discovery.
In the movie there never was any mention that the mission to Jupiter was one way requiring a back-up rescue mission. In the book a mission to Jupiter was mentioned but changed instead to Saturn and the saturnian moon Japetus where Clarke placed a huge monolith on its surface. For this reason I can understand a one-way trip since the amount of fuel planned may have been suffecient for return from Jupiter but not from Saturn and would have required extensive ship re-design, perhaps pushing a launch date back several years or more. Also in the movie we have no idea how big the monolith circling Jupiter was. A huge monolith was in the book and used in 2010 movie. In a stroke of genius Kubrick was able to make the end of the movie reflect the beginning by eliminating all dialog after the pre-recorded mission briefing and still keep the story moving. The statement by Bowman about " its full of stars" was never in the movie. I have also wondered about the three hibernating astronauts. We know that they had separate special training apart from Poole and Bowman, who only knew the official cover story. The true mission was to go to Jupiter and discover and make contact with whatever the monolith had sent a signal to. Therefore the three hibernating astronauts were trained for a first contact mission without being told that it was one? That's the part I have trouble with. I can understand HAL getting rid of them thinking that they would mess up the mission and that he was the only qualified one to make contact. I just think it would have made a little more sense to have it in the pre-recorded message that the three hibernating astronauts knew the true purpose of the mission. Also I wonder about the amount of time needed to excavate the monolith and I think that the 14 day lunar night isn't enough time. I think the monolith was partially uncovered during the day when they were only expecting to find a buried meteorite and then more equipment was brought in resulting in the final TMA-1 site seen in the movie. The reason the monolith didn't trigger at first was that it was made to only respond when fully exposed to sunlight. This would indicate that intelligience had arisen enough on the planet to travel to its moon, detect the magnetic field of the mobolith and dig it up and signal the next phase of the experiment. |
||
x15gal |
|||
|
Posts: 25 (12/21/08 02:25:09) |
Yes, coming up with a timeline and figuring what is canon and what is not, is a very difficult, yet also very fun, task. I very much enjoyed putting this
together way back in the actual year 2001. If you read my notes, I do explain where I get my basic information and how I judge what to accept in the book over
the movie, etc. The overall rule when I did this is that if it is in the movie, then it is "true." In other words I treated the movie as if it were a
documentary that was filming actual events as they happened. So if it is in the movie it is "real." Then the script and then the book come into play
to fill in many other details such as dates, times, etc. The two items that set the entire project into motion are that in the movie one date is clearly shown
and in the script there is a consistent date and time, so everything flows from those two facts.
To quote from my notes: In one of the first drafts of the "2001" shooting script, dated December 1965 (just prior to the start of actual movie production), it is stated that TMA-1 was uncovered at 08:43 ET on April 12, 2001, just after local sunset at the excavation site. Since this is the first date actually set into print, I have chosen this marker as the true start point for creating this timeline. This date is also consistent with the one place in the movie where a date can be clearly seen. While traveling on the Moon Bus to the excavation site, Dr. Floyd looks over several photographs and geomagnetic plots of TMA-1. On one of the photographs, the date of February 12, 2001 (021201) clearly appears. This discovery date for TMA-1 is consistent with the April 12, 2001 date for the actual excavation of the monolith, as set down in the script. It is too bad that 2010, the movie, was badly mushed up on its timeline, so it is pretty much impossible to carry on a consistent timeline from 2001 to 2010. Michelle |
||
EVAPOD man |
2001 timeline | ||
|
Posts: 93 (12/21/08 10:28:45) |
I agree that it can be dificult and fun to create a time line and also that 2010 should be comepletely igored as a mediocre work that trashes what Kubrick and
Clarke created.
In this forum there are several threads where people using existing knowledge about spaceflight that didn't exist in 1966 have speculated about how things would have been done and worked in "reality". One subject that has arsien is the conventional wisdom that the Discovery spaceship was constructed in Earth orbit. Knowing what we now about lifting mass up from a large gravity well like the Earth I have postulated the Discovery and other ships were constucted in lunar orbit. I base this on the extensive construction seen at Calvius during the Aires landing scenes. It would be far easier to pre-fab the modules and lift them into orbit using a solar powered mass driver. Also the Discovery suggests modular construction implying that smaller and similar ships had been constructed there for exploration of the inner planets. |
||
AE35 |
Moon mining | ||
|
Posts: 7 (12/21/08 11:52:56) |
The lunar surface is actually an excellent place to mine minerals. Take a look at this link. The surface is rich in aluminum and titanium, not to mention oxygen...
essential for spacecraft manufacturing. Lots of solar energy for power, but it's only "on" half the time. Nuclear power would be more useful.
Alternatively, you could convert solar to potential energy during sunlight by raising extremely massive weights, then lowering them during darkness via a
generator-linked mechanism. I don't know why this method hasn't caught on with solar energy storage on Earth.
Looking at all of these issues, it would make no sense to manufacture in Earth orbit. The abundant resources at the lunar surface would lend themselves to a "viral" robotic unmanned mining operation. This concept isn't new to the science fiction literature. A relatively small, self-replicating lunar mining "package" delivered to the Lunar surface would eventually grow to such an extent that there would be an unlimited supply of raw materials for spaceflight. Since silicon is also abundant on the lunar surface, solar cells could be grown for use on the lunar surface, spacecraft, and even for transport to Earth orbit for microwave transmission to the surface. This concept was fleshed out during the late 1970's. I attended a lecture by the inventor of the photoklystron, which converts sunlight directly to microwaves, at Rice University. The point is that much of the engineering has already been worked out and paid for. What's needed is the political will to execute it. |
||
EVAPOD man |
Lunar mining | ||
|
Posts: 94 (12/27/08 07:24:10) |
The info about lunar mining is very interesting. I have stated before that science fiction often doesn't go far enough in realizing what is possible.
|
||
Jim Layfield |
|||
|
Posts: 44 (12/31/08 07:21:50) |
Its even harder to reconcile if you include 'The Lost Worlds of 2001'-I believe in the novel Bowman is quoted as 'having last seen the ship from
outside while it was in lunar orbit after its maiden test flight' (He never left the ship on the Poole Rescue in the novel.The lost worlds version has a
low earth orbit departure with attached boosters or drop tanks dumped in the first few hours of the mission with Earth still close by.
|
||
EVAPOD man |
Lost worlds of 2001 | ||
|
Posts: 95 (12/31/08 09:54:30) |
Other variations by Clarke include the entire crew waking up and being transported along with the ship to another world where they meet humanoid aliens in a
classic sci-fi scenario. Also the HAL 9000 computer was at one point called Athena after the greek goddess.
Personally I think the Kubrick version is the best. He stated that anything we can relate to is by definition an extension of ourselves and wanted something totally alien and outside outside our realm of experiences. So that at the end of the journey we have a totally shattered mentally Bowman being set down in the room of a four star hotel with no doors or windows while distorted alien voices watch him age until finally near death he is transformed into the Starchild. It should also be stated that Clarke patterned 2001 after Homer's Odyssey. Like Odysseus Bowman was the only one to return from his voyage. But I don't think he did what Odysseus did when he returned to Ithaca. But to quote the book, Bowman/Starchild would think of something. |
||
x15gal |
|||
|
Posts: 27 (01/01/09 01:26:54) |
I look at all the variations that occurred prior to the final filmed version as akin to design studies. How many scenarios were put forth by NASA prior to
settling on lunar orbit rendezvous, and then look at all the variations on the LM until that design was frozen. So, the Lost Worlds, to my mind are along those
lines of the mission planners trying to think up the best was to run the Discovery voyage. What we finally saw on screen was the optimum design. Just too bad
that they didn't figure out that you never tell a computer to lie without thinking of the possible consequences of that! :-) Maybe because Kubrick and
Clarke thought of it first, someday real astronauts might not have to face the same problem when they have an AI running their ship. On the other hand, NASA
never learns from mistakes, so it'll probably be bound to happen to someone down the line.
Happy New Year all! Gee, do I have the honor of being the first post of 2009? Michelle |
||
Jim Layfield |
|||
|
Posts: 45 (01/06/09 08:02:59) |
Another controversy over what is canon for modelling:The Discovery is a bad design (There Ive said it !) because it is basically 2 masses on the end of a spine
which must have some slight flexibility.Its a classical oscillator,and every time attitude jets on the CM or engine module fired in pitch or yaw the whole ship
would 'twang'. What it needed would be some kind of active tension/damper system on the spine.There are photos of the movie miniature with such a wire
cage enclosing the spine-anyone fancy adding this?.Jim
|
||
robertfish |
Re: Active tension/damper system for Discovery's spine | ||
|
Posts: 143 (01/06/09 08:49:13) |
Hey Jim,
Do you have a link for that picture? Very interesting point. -Robert |
||
etssp |
|||
|
Posts: 110 (01/06/09 21:55:01) |
Steven Pietrobon
steven@sworld.com.au
Last Edited By: etssp
01/06/09 21:58:51.
Edited 1 times.
|
||
robertfish |
|||
|
Posts: 144 (01/07/09 08:17:24) |
Thanks Steve! -Robert
|
||
Jim Layfield |
|||
|
Posts: 46 (01/08/09 00:02:38) |
Thanks also-I was struggling to scan Bizony's book which has one of those pics.It also has a drawing of the whole ship with both the spine cage and the
engine radiators-wonder if they ever made it to the real model?It does look clumsy and I certainly prefer the lean ascetic screen version even if it would have
been an SOB to steer in a strong gravitational gradient.
BTW in the UK 2 nights ago there was a documentary filmed at Kubricks home last year showing his 1000+ file boxes of gathered archives.Some were banal-'always have at least 3 melons in the house',some were obsessional-if a scene needed a typical London street he had every door photographed and assembled in a panorama to view.It mentioned all outakes from his films were destroyed,but there are still dozens of film cans with screen tests, on-set activity, and mainly....unknown.The family had just decided to donate them to a University in London,so if someone gets moving *now* we might see a new version of the making of 2001 for the 50th anniversary |
||
treddie |
|||
|
Posts: 69 (01/08/09 23:27:59) |
Jim Layfield > I agree with you about the twang factor. A tall rocket like a Saturn-V has a twang factor too, but within reason due to having a cage of its own...the "cage" being the internal structure of the stages. I like the esthetics of the final Discovery, but the cage I think would be mandatory, if, as designed, it could dampen the bending moments. Only one possibility I can think of as an option would be if the Discovery kept its final form, but that the connecting nodes were "smart" in that they would reverse the moments as they are sensed. But that sounds like a lot of extra weight to have to carry with you, if it would even work. |
||
Jim Layfield |
|||
|
Posts: 47 (01/09/09 01:48:32) |
Agreed.Maybe along with the PanAm and IBM logos in the film ,there should have been a tiny label saying' Lotus Motor Company' on the Discovery |
||
EVAPOD man |
Discovery design | ||
|
Posts: 96 (01/10/09 07:24:26) |
All this discussion about whether the Discovery needed external cable stiffeners is really meaningless without any engineering data of the actual ship or info
about how the spine was constructed. The use of modular sections suggest that similar ships were constructed acccording to mission need and problems like this
would have cropped up early and been taken care of.
The only real criticism of the ship is the lack of radiators for the nuclear reactor which Clarke pointed out and the lack of external fuel tanks. Nobody know what the spine blocks are. If they are fuel tanks then they are extremely small and would have been jettisoned when empty to reduce mass. And yes it is a good design for an atomic powered space craft to put the reactor as far away from the crew compartment to reduce radiation exposure. There were several concept drawings done during the 60's of future interplanetary ships showing the same thing. I figure the engine module is an unshielded reactor that was constructed in space using heavily shielded EVA pods and/or ROVs. The only shielding needed is the disk between the EM and spine section which places the command sphere in the shadow of the reactor. |
||
mograph |
|||
|
Posts: 6 (01/22/09 08:11:29) |
... but on EVA, the astronauts would be outside such a shield, no?
|
||